• Not everyone can run or wants to run CQ.
• Many were/are extremely happy with the old Hanger view and "Ship spinning".
• Most requested feature of CQ testing, ignored by CCP.

• Not everyone can access this new content.
• MicroTransactions not MegaTransactions.
• Makes EvE the laughing stock of MMO's.
• Players feel they are being leached.
• Bypassed the CSM.

• It states MT will be in ALL areas of the EvE Universe.
• CCP & CSM agreed Vanity items only.
• MicroTransactions not MegaTransactions.
• Ignored the CSM.

• It is insulting and de-grading.
• "smooth and successful expansions, not to mention absolutely gorgeous": 4.5 hours overdue deployment, 2+ threadnoughts & 100's of accounts unsubbed, ugly & slow. Anyone? Srsly?
• Comparing pixels to RL is MMO suicide (see "SWG NPE" in Google)
• "I hope Iæve addressed your concerns" - No, not a single one of them. (Hense this thread as the message is clearly being lost).
• The "F**K You" message that is sends to players.
• Ignored the CSM.

• Not "optional".
• Not finished.
• Over heating video-cards.
• Avatars look like they have been beaten with baseball bats.
• "Shown the door" when it is turned off (This seriously isn't funny).
• Broken, Ugly & Slow.
• Mountains of player feedback in the testing forum ignored.
• Ignored the CSM.

• Key mechanics (probing) were changed dramatically without warning.
• Boosters & Implants were severely broken.
• Show info windows scroll-bars didn't work.
• Drones, missiles & probes werent getting any bonuses.

• Lack Of.
• Insulting to players.
• Un-controlled.

Originally by: Alpine 69

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This is actually a good thread. CCP Listen to what the OP has to say.

+1

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Originally by: Govinda Sertan

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Edited by: Govinda Sertan on 25/06/2011 11:05:48
Edited by: Govinda Sertan on 25/06/2011 11:05:30
Dont forget the leaked pdf and the damn mail.

When i read those is the moment i finally open my eyes and see where they are going : far from their fanbase.

Personnaly, after reading the mail this morning, i think it is over already and unsubbed. I am moving to a new game, so its my last moments on this forum.

Simply to say : never a game company disapointed me so much. The trust is lost forever.

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Originally by: Noran Ferah

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Without a monocle, you just will not be taken seriously.

Where is your passion? Your commitment?


In all seriousness, why bother with all this feigned outrage? I can go buy myself a titan pilot (and a titan) for RM right now, and nobody cares. That is using RM for an in-game advantage. Why is there no outrage against that? To not rail and howl against the CCP supported ability to buy characters and isk for cash, this is all a logical fallacy.

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Originally by: Arth Lawing

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Issue 2 Nex prices. I think the cost is not the issue here, but rather the addition of an extra new type of currency when we already have plex-isk conversion, and the costs of these items compared to other items. A set of clothing shouldn't cost more than a ready to rock capital ship, if so, why can't we all live on the planets and be tailors instead of pod pilots.

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Originally by: Noran Ferah

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Originally by: Jimmy De'Souza

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something not constructive...

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Somethign more unconstructive..

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Originally by: Noran Ferah

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Originally by: Ms Freak

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Guys... Please... Take it else where.

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I am not trolling you, Ms Freak, I just think that CCP knows far better than we what to do with their game.

Not trying to rain on your parade, I am sure you feel you have valid points. I don't know why you feel surprised that the figurehead CSM was bypassed. In the end, CCP is a business. They are going to do whatever they must to remain competitive in the market. I am not surprised at anything they have done here, it is after all, their game, not ours. They are the ones that will decide what will happen here, and my guess is that all these 'leaks' were done on purpose to gauge reactions to changes that have been in the works for ages. It is to them I look for where this game should go, not the player base. I think that they have done a great job so far, and if you don't like the changes they are planning, well, HTFU. It is not the end of the world.

Perhaps their analysis of the market has shown that these changes, while perhaps making them lose say 10% of their player base, will result in a 25% increase in subscribers after all is said and done? What would you do in that situation? They do not owe us anything. They provide a service, we pay for it, quid pro quo.

Is it possible they could have done a better job in warning the players of changes in the pipe? Sure, but why do they owe me that? So I cant go farm LG Virtues in my unproebable Tengu in Aeschee anymore. So what? I need to move on and find something else to do...

Change is good, the more surprising the better.

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Originally by: Thom Baron

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And then there's still those of us unable to install/repair incarna at all.

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Originally by: Arth Lawing

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Originally by: Ms Freak

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Originally by: Thom Baron

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And then there's still those of us unable to install/repair incarna at all.

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I knew there was something!! - I'll add the Mac issues now. Sorry about that!

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While we're at it there's the support for linux native client, which was dropped because of lack of staff iirc, when games like vendetta online continue to have a linux client with a much smaller team and have added android support now too.

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Originally by: Jules Asner

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Ms Freak You are 100% spot on.

If you like what i have to say can you please add it to the main post so it doesnt get lost in all the other posts.

.. Sorry *Snip* ....

Ships/ammo/implants should NEVER be sold. a sandbox is a sandbox everything made in every is made by players (or as much as possible)

These are just some ideas feel free to comment

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Originally by: Carmoisine Bavaire

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Edited by: Carmoisine Bavaire on 25/06/2011 12:03:44
-1
*rage*

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Originally by: Ms Freak

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@CCP Fallout/Penn

Guys - if you've read this can you acknowledge/apply glue or something please? (Cheeky i know) as the sheer volume of forum chrun is pushing this too far down too quickly.

I think if people see there is a potential for a simple response in a calm controlled way then things may settle down a bit.

Thanks

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Originally by: Amoes Sten

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I have a suggestion for you. There is an editing error when referring to the issue with SWG. It is SWG's NGE not NPE. Its fairly important.

Otherwise great thread, keep up the fine work.

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Originally by: ALLYOURMONEY BELONGTOUS

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CCP had their chance. They said screw you!!! We tried to talk to them before the the protest. They said STFU sit down and go to the dollhouse and buy a monocle. The protesters have all had their accounts cancelled already. We are just making eve crappy for everyone else until we leave

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Originally by: Ghazi

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Originally by: Ms Freak

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Originally by: Noran Ferah

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Without a monocle, you just will not be taken seriously.

Where is your passion? Your commitment?


In all seriousness, why bother with all this feigned outrage? I can go buy myself a titan pilot (and a titan) for RM right now, and nobody cares. That is using RM for an in-game advantage. Why is there no outrage against that? To not rail and howl against the CCP supported ability to buy characters and isk for cash, this is all a logical fallacy.

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Please can we keep this constructive so that CCP may have a chance at addressing this situation ina way to everyone liking?

This thread is not "Feigned outrage" it is clear, thought-out constructive questioning. And i would like to keep it that way if at all possible.

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Never knew I would be so proud to know you, brother. Keep up the good work. +1

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Originally by: Jimbob Jumbo

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No mention of the mining / ratting macro and botting that plagues null sec? This is as detrimental to Eve than all this latest BS. Yet CCP do very little and 1d or 7d bans for 0.0001% of those caught do not go far enough.

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Originally by: Matah Hari

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+1 Good post OP and I hope it gets the sticky.

I would reword the following though:

"òIt states MT will be in ALL areas of the EvE Universe." The memo doesn't "state" this will be the plan of action (at least not explicitly), so they can easily answer this point by saying the memo is just a debate of ideas or possibilities. This should be stated more in the lines of "why is this even being considered even though you know how the players feel about it". Or something like that.


Thank you

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Originally by: Matah Hari

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Edited by: Matah Hari on 25/06/2011 17:45:12
Edited by: Matah Hari on 25/06/2011 17:44:19

Originally by: Ms Freak

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Originally by: Matah Hari

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+1 Good post OP and I hope it gets the sticky.

I would reword the following though:

"òIt states MT will be in ALL areas of the EvE Universe." The memo doesn't "state" this will be the plan of action (at least not explicitly), so they can easily answer this point by saying the memo is just a debate of ideas or possibilities. This should be stated more in the lines of "why is this even being considered even though you know how the players feel about it". Or something like that.


Thank you

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The following excert was taken from Page 5 of "Greed is Good?" and starts in the middile of the last paragraph on the right hand side.

*snip*

Thanks for the support and keeping it constructive

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In a completely constructive way:

Yes I know what the memo says, but we're trying to get a possitive response from CCP. And saying the memo "states" something would be a step backwards, since they already said the memo was only the opinions of the people who wrote it and does not represent CCP's "plan". I'm not saying 'I' believe that, I'm just saying what they, in their small little heads, regard this as the truth and might dissregard your post because of the wording.

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Originally by: Ragnar Wintermute

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Gaaaah, do I have to repost this everywhere? The thread kind of fails to address my issue which I'm really praying is shared by atleast some of the other players...


The entire game is centered around one massive economy that the thousands of players all interface and interact with in a thousand different clever and not so clever ways. This expansion was advertised as an opportunity for the players to have new chains of industry, professions, and all the other emergent experiences that come with it being a natural extension of the PLAYER based economy. Instead CCP grabbed it as an opportunity to line their own pockets at the expense of the quality of their product. They are essentially entering their own games economy!

They also mention providing new ships, ammo, etc to the game via real money. They don't realize the fact that the ships made by the players are mined from raw asteroids, processed, traded, speculated on, refined, manufactured into ships with the help player copied blueprints, and so on for every miniscule aspect of the game. What do all these players do when people just start buying better products directly from CCP using real money? Do they just sit around and do nothing or start having to spend more money on top of their subscription to enjoy the game and maybe be competitive?

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Originally by: Caelestis Starcaller

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*Snip* ........... *Snip*

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Originally by: Caelestis Starcaller

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Issue 3 MT & Features
Community awnser = Its soundwaves personal thought in an internal document not freaking company policy

Issue 4 CCP Zulu's Blog
Community awnser = 500 pages of flames and you expect an awnser? /facepalm

Issue 6 Broken & Stealth
Community awnser = most have been fixed and so what that you cant be unprobable anymore. Now stealth actually gets more added value as a feature.

Issue 7 Communication
Community awnser = ya thats right go protest to someting that hasnt even been done and in the proces cripple the economy for your fellow players. Like this really hurts CCP..... It hurts us you idiots. What point is there in communicating with an angry mob of idiots.

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Originally by: Vyper Harkonnen

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YOU'RE FORGETTING ABOUT NON-VANITY ITEMS!

CCP has clearly demonstrated that if you don't physically shove something in their face then they will ignore it. OP needs to add more clearly defined concerns about pay to win items.

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Originally by: Caelestis Starcaller

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Originally by: Ms Freak

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Originally by: Caelestis Starcaller

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*Snip*

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*Snip*

@everyone else: Sorry he just made me mad

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Good then we are on an equal footing
Post something that is worth mentioning and we can be civil but your rant of colorful junk is complete bogus and also the reason why it will never be sticky-ed

All you protesters are ruining the fun for everyone else. How about wait for CCP to get back from the weekend get a clear head and start from scratch with stuff that makes sense.

It not like the world is gonna end tomorrow if you don't get your answers now.

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Originally by: Caelestis Starcaller

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You make a post stating 8 issues that everyone is crying about atm and locking down the tradehub because of that and you dont condone the protest??? now you got me confused.
I guess the only way to be constructive is if i agree with you right?

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Originally by: TheButcherPete

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Ms Freak,
Thank you so much for not making another rage thread. If we want CCP to treat us like adults we need to stop acting like children.

I vote to sticky this thread until the majority of players are happy.

Everything you said was wrong with EVE and CCP, was completely true.
-Pete

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Originally by: Mr Epeen

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If the OP replaces the word 'community' with 'narrow minded, insular bunch of whiny forum ****ants that think they talk for the majority' I will consider giving the motion to stick my grudging support.

Mr Epeen

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Originally by: AureuSZ

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I'd like to add on the communication side, that if CCP would have handled this better in the first place, players wouldn't have been so upset, they would just have had some cancelled accounts and thats it.

Now they even banned some players.

I'd like all bans performed in this debacle to be reactivated as a proof of good will.

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Originally by: Ragnar Wintermute

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*Snip*
Yeah, you are right however I just feel like it isn't articulated well enough and that we just make an assumption that CCP realizes this based on how fundamentally obvious it is.

I'm too tired to even look at the memo but don't they state they are selling an immersive experience? Obviously they are but aren't they also selling the gameplay and the rules that come with that gameplay? Maybe they just need to realize what it is they are really selling that is of more value.

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Originally by: General Xenophon

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+2 Great write up. Little drama and well said! Really appreciate the work that went into this thread and really does generally sum up how I feel. Please consider this thread CCP. We do love your game but what you're doing it and to us isn't acceptable.

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Originally by: Rhapsodae

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I really Ms Freak, that once there is a CCP response, that u will quicklink it :) thread growing rapidly

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Originally by: RougeOperator

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Originally by: Hel O'Ween

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I think you forgot to add one issue: charging 3rd party devs who provide free tools/services to the community and fan sites $99/year for using EVE IP if they receive donations.

No one has a problem with a commercial license that enable those that do whish to charge RL money for their tools to do so. In fact, that's a good idea. But that "gimme money for your free tool" doesn't seem to be a good idea.

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Yeah this needs to be added to the list. They are not as vocal a group cause there are not as many of them.

But this was a **** move as well.

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Originally by: AureuSZ

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Please Add Free Helicity Boson to the list sir :)

I think next time they should take the steps for calming things down before thinking about banning people.

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Originally by: Renan Ruivo

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So CCP Zulu is wiriting another blog. Friendly bump to this thread so that he can find inspiration.

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Originally by: dhunpael

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Originally by: Slaqer

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You should also add a question about this article Sony Buys CCP. I'm sure a lot of people want an answer for this as well myself included.

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you are not the only one

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Originally by: Stephan Janus

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Ms Freak for CSM!!!

I sign my support in full to her op

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Originally by: Franz Sigel

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We have a pen&paper RPG in Germany, +The Dark Eye½ (Das Schwarze Auge), which works as a mutual maintenance/caretaking of community-by-company and company-by-community in a way similar to Eve. The simulated world, compared to other Fantasy RPG's, displays (imho) an unrivalled richness which is due to the engagement and the contributions of the community, while the company (whose body corporate has changed over times while the core team has been more or less persisting) keeps a close contact to the community. And there's a similar tier of CSM as with Eve/CCP, which is channeling that communication.

Now Eurogamer has made an important point:

+The option to assume a Gordon Gecko mentality and capitalise further on EVE Online only exists because of the players. The sandbox that led to the stories that enthrall even non-players doesn't belong to CCP - it belongs to the community.½

This has already been pointed out in multiple posts of the Eve Community, but I feel compelled to pointedly add my own angle of view:

The whole thing boils down, as in the real world, to a question of good and legitimate government - Eve (and +The Dark Eye½ alike), as a mutual product of Company and Community, has been and could still be a model case of how Capitalism, while being about money, nevertheless builds upon information (Hayek's POV: markets are about processing information, primarily, and money is only a means to that). Undock from the flow of community information - and your business gets over the heads of the People, loses its contact to Reality, and finally produces its own legitimation crisis.

There used to be a lot of talk once (at least in Europe) about what +economic democracy½ could mean - here we have a practical working example: a Company that functions as the corporated heart of a Community to realize the visions of that community - which are, ideally, at least compatible with the visions of the Company's staff. Subscription fees are the taxes payed by the Community to keep its Government up and running - while they duly expect that this Government be Good and Legitimate and hence take care of the needs and aspirations of its People.

So, finally, the idea of legitimate government is not a metaphor her, it's the real thing - thus we may adopt the slogan that led to the Boston Tea Party of 1773: +No taxation without representation!½. For Eve is not only a game (and a virtual economy), but an example of real world economy as well, to which the Community is dedicating not only their money, but their irretrievable lifetime, too! So please, CCP, don't f**k with our lifetime - at least not with mine!

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Originally by: Maa Ku

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Quote:

---

Issue 1: Removal of the "Hanger View"
Why all the "Rage"?:
Not everyone can run or wants to run CQ.
Many were/are extremely happy with the old Hanger view and "Ship spinning".
Most requested feature of CQ testing, ignored by CCP.
Community Request: Return the hanger view and have an "Exit to CQ/WiS" button.

---

I really hope they do this. Biggest issue in my book.

Quote:

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Issue 2: NeX Prices
Why all the "Rage"?:
Not everyone can access this new content.
MicroTransactions not MegaTransactions.
Makes EvE the laughing stock of MMO's.
Players feel they are being leached.
Additional new currancy
Affect on PLEX prices
Bypassed the CSM.
Community Request: Divide all the prices by at least 10. They will still be expensive and "Exclusive" but more accessible and less laughable.

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No - The monocle is fine if it's a status symbol so long as they introduce cheap items. Geez, they need some loss-leaders in there at least!

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Originally by: Belid Hagen

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*snip*

so.... we should start buying up CCP stock as a community?

I'm in.

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Originally by: Handsom Dan

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First, you can shut CQ off... for now.

Second, can someone explain the video card overheating bit? I've talked to few folks who are complaining that the cards are hitting 90c...and? That's well with in operating temp and probably still not running the cooling fan at 100%. I think this needs to be quantified as, I'd suspect many people complaining about over heating, don't understand what that means.

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Originally by: karmaaa

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Edited by: karmaaa on 28/06/2011 16:52:55

Originally by: Takashi Halamoto

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i must admit i was stunned that if you dont like this optional captains quaters (and remember this is a spaceship game, watching tv in the CQ is optional and should always be optional) the view you get is to be shown the door, literally i mean ARE THERE NO PR PEOPLE OVER THERE? i know they employ brits and americans so its not a cultural reference thing but i mean seriously!? if this is an accident its the dumbest move ever, if deliberate its actual literal contempt to the face

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Tbh, the amount of stupidity inside a gaming company can be astounding, I have personally worked for two so far, Blizzard Entertainment and IO interactive. The ego and lack of respect of clients can be astounding at times, not to mention the treatment of lower level employees.

/Karm

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Originally by: Takashi Halamoto

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true enough ms Freak, but i always remember the first rule of the netz, (one ive fallen foul of) unless talking to a person face to face, the 'emotional content' gets lost and what i write as a sardonic tongue in cheek friendly joke may come across in plain text to bob smith as a vile insult and plain hurtful, without the other person to go by we use our own outlook, personality and feelings to fill in the blanks, and in any large enough group of people a bunch would take the showing the door joke the wrong way, its human nature, those would scream HOW DARE THEY!!!!! OMG!!!!! and then because when you tell someone hey did you spot the mini deathstar in the apocrypha background people will look for it and see it even if its not there because their mind tries to fulfil its own expectations, thus it becomes a self sustaining phenomena as people who didnt see the bad side suddenly do,

thats why you have to be damn careful what you do and how you do it, if it was a joke they should have explained it right away to do the whole 'get it eh lolz' bit to make people see it as funny, but with everything else going on in incarna alot of people were predisposed to see it as the insult, i didnt see it as an insult, then someone mentioned hey they are showing us the door, then i just facepalmd at the sheer dumbass of doing it

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Originally by: Takashi Halamoto

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perfect case in point then ms freak,

i was half torn between facepalm oh no that was dumb and are they deliberatly being rude, you saw a bit funny and a bit worried by arrogance, some didnt get it, others exploded in rage,

in any case what it was in total was CARELESS,
a company that has contempt for its customers shouldnt let them find out,
a company that cares for its customers shouldnt make them think they dont,
a company that wants to be light hearted should make sure everyone gets the joke,

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Originally by: Dohl Khrensen

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Originally by: Ms Freak

---

Makes EvE the laughing stock of MMO's.

---

Of everything that's happened with this expansion and the lead up to, this is the one that makes me the saddest inside.

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Originally by: Takashi Halamoto

---

oh and for more great head-desk moments from me, the whole

but $1000 jeans!

*THUMP*

oh no dont try to justify by comparing to real physical

*THUMP*

better stop doing that my computer desk is made of steel

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Originally by: Takashi Halamoto

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i think Ms Freak you may have to reference and wrap in the COO interview thats being talked about round here, it seems to be more oh god you dont know what your saying do you, type material

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Originally by: Takashi Halamoto

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mainly i think its a corollary to the hilmar email and Zulu's first devblog in that it dosnt sound helpful and just perpetuates the negative perceptions that are out there

dear CCP welcome to the Hell News Cycle, it just never ends

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Originally by: Name Family Name

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Good post, especially issue #1.

Could you please change 'Hanger' to 'Hangar'? A Hanger is something quite different...

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Originally by: The Mittani On Twitter

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@phantam1113 It's a lengthy statement addressing each of the controversies we've faced in the last week or so in no uncertain terms

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